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#16 11-06-2010 5:02pm

Pierre21
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Registered: 01-10-2005
Posts: 664
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Re: Third and Seneca

Here's a very short and simple video of a guy playing this type of tremolo slowly and then more and more rapidly.

It's the "PAMI" tremolo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06zL7jNjK8

Last edited by Pierre21 (11-06-2010 5:02pm)

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#17 11-06-2010 5:09pm

Pierre21
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Registered: 01-10-2005
Posts: 664
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Re: Third and Seneca

Lastly, Flamenco players usually do the hard-to-master PIAMI tremolo where they play quintuplets with a finger progression of Thumb on the bass and Index-Ring-Middle-Index on the high string ! Very difficult. Here's a breathtaking video of Paco de Lucia, check the intro for that difficult flamenco playing figure : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o8vszqV … re=related

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#18 11-07-2010 5:04pm

ali_munchkin
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From: Cardiff, Wales
Registered: 09-24-2010
Posts: 7

Re: Third and Seneca

i so appreciate this info guys smile i'm kind of self taught and have lots of bad habits but want to learn about these techniques properly. I guessed alot of this is standard flamenco/spanish stuff but don't know the terminlogy so was afraid to ask lol - glad i did now smile i'd like to start playing stuff properly instad of kind of blagging 80% of it sounding the same....

btw i've been a long time thp/mark fan and always read this site, since the old godawful.ftp days wink ifor some reason i've never posted on a forum ever.. stupid really... glad i did now smile

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#19 11-10-2010 4:04pm

Sickboy
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Registered: 03-27-2004
Posts: 485

Re: Third and Seneca

I too have pretty much been self taught, and after 20 years I have many bad guitar habits. Thanks to you guys for being patience and explaining some of this stuff so guys like me can understand.

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#20 12-03-2010 2:25pm

frankhond
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Registered: 09-01-2009
Posts: 9

Re: Third and Seneca

Ok... but in the section where Pierre notated 4 notes on the 5 fret of the high string, how does the bass+trill go (I'm not sure I understand the alternate notation - Pierre,  in your original tab you notated 4 notes on the high string but here you only write 3)?

I'm also new to this tremolo stuff, "normal singer songwriter" stuff doesn't have it... but times are a-changin, time to get with it.

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#21 12-05-2010 4:51am

Pierre21
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Registered: 01-10-2005
Posts: 664
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Re: Third and Seneca

Pierre21 wrote:

So I'd have to properly check but I think it goes like this:

D|-----5-5-5-------5-5-5-------5-5-5-------5-5-5---
A|---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2-
E|-0-----------0-----------0-----------0-----------
D|-------------------------------------------------
A|-------------------------------------------------
D|-------------------------------------------------
   T T R M I T T T R M I T T T R M I T T T R M I T

The original tab was not done by me but by MathEquation, hence the difference. I only write three notes on the high string because I don't use my pinky (so I'm left with only three fingers to use). what I do is  I pluck the 0 and 2 with my thumb and then the three consecutive 5's with, in order, my ring-middle and index fingers. Look at the letters under the tab they indicate the fingers you must use.

I hope that's clearer. Graham from the Koz Guitar archive told me I should record videos of me playing the songs I've tabbed, maybe those would help.

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#22 12-14-2010 7:14am

frankhond
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Registered: 09-01-2009
Posts: 9

Re: Third and Seneca

Thanks! that makes sense, it can be perfectly played pami with only three notes. The video on youtube where Koz plays it on that windy outdoor stage shows his right hand very well, I don't think he uses his pinky, although it kinda goes along for the ride...

Thanks for all your great work in tabbing this!

A hint for all of you struggling with the tremolo - get Scott Tennants "pumping nylon" (the dvd), he will have you up and running in no time (speed will take a little longer though). He advocates lots of planting and a staccato feel which sounds very good and clean once you get it down. I'm still working on it but Scotts instruction really helped.

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#23 12-14-2010 9:48am

MathEquation
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From: England
Registered: 03-02-2010
Posts: 60

Re: Third and Seneca

Not logged in in a while. Yeah sorry, I only play it by hitting the string three times as well but I've tabbed it wrong.


"Sometimes I pick it up and play. Loosen and stretch it's ancient strings, until it sounds the way I feel."

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#24 12-15-2010 2:34pm

ali_munchkin
Member
From: Cardiff, Wales
Registered: 09-24-2010
Posts: 7

Re: Third and Seneca

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone who helped with this - from watching the videos along with the tab of the fingering I pretty much have it sussed smile once you suss the 'swing' of the technique it kind of starts flowing. just need to practice now to get it sounding more natural...

One thing I also learnt from the video of mark playing it  (this is probably obvoius to everyone above my level pf playing!) - I used to play the verse with all my right hand - even including my pinky. I noticed the way in the verse he actually glues his 3 top fingers to the guitar and plays entirely with only his thumb and forefinger. By forcing myself to learn to play it like this (against my instinct!) it now sounds much more defined and consistent - just a case of actually sitting down and learning something properly for once instead of playing it 'half right' in my own way...

Thanks again!
Alex

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#25 12-17-2010 1:01am

frankhond
Member
Registered: 09-01-2009
Posts: 9

Re: Third and Seneca

ali_munchkin wrote:

I noticed the way in the verse he actually glues his 3 top fingers to the guitar and plays entirely with only his thumb and forefinger. By forcing myself to learn to play it like this (against my instinct!) it now sounds much more defined and consistent - just a case of actually sitting down and learning something properly for once instead of playing it 'half right' in my own way...
Alex

Yes, I saw this for the first time at the concert last month. For "old style picking" songs he uses thumb and index like you described. For classical style he switches to classical position. I had to deal with something similar when messing with a couple Reverend Gary Davis songs. I would suggest to try it the exact way to get the feel. But once you have the feel, it is possible to adopt a similar attitude with other techniques.

For me, an important factor is to apply thumb muting and finger planting to clean up the sound and get that drive. Then it's possible to play it three finger style.

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#26 12-17-2010 10:42am

Pierre21
Member
Registered: 01-10-2005
Posts: 664
Website

Re: Third and Seneca

Playing with only the thumb and index finger is not really important in my opinion. I always wondered why Kozelek, who's obviously able to use all his fingers, would only pick with two... Usually it is not recommended. He's remarkably good at it though ! But I believe you can get the exact same result by using all your fingers (except the pinky of course) without breaking a sweat trying to force yourself to play exactly like he does.

The most interesting part of using all your fingers is they're each assigned to one string and that's it. The ring finger takes care of the 1rst string, the middle finger is on the 2nd string and the index on the 3rd. Your thumb takes care of the 3 lower strings.

Last edited by Pierre21 (12-17-2010 11:13am)

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